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Monday, July 17, 2006
As I've stated before, a lot of bumper stickers bug me a little. Not so much the funny ones, though I really don't see the point of telling the same joke every day for years on end. The ones I don't get are of the "I support this" or "I believe that" type. There's one I see far more than others, so I'm finally going to rant about it.
I know you've seen it, too. It's the one that says "Proud to be an American".
Now, I can hear some spines stiffening already, but fret not. This has nothing to do with my feelings about America, and everything to do with how I feel about pride.
I see pride as coming in two varieties. The first is deserved pride. This is the pride you earn through your actions. If you do a good job at work, you can take pride in that. If you buy a crappy looking house and fix it up so that it becomes beautiful, you have a right be be proud. If your children are polite and helpful to old ladies crossing the street, you can take pride in the fact that you raised them well. There is no harm in taking some pride in your accomplishments, especially if they took a lot of time and work.
Then there is another pride, which I call vain pride. This is the type that the Bible warns us about, the kind that cometh before a fall. This is pride taken in something that you had nothing to do with. This is the kind expressed in the bumper sticker.
Now, it would be appropriate if someone immigrated here, learned the language and the history, jumped through the hoops, took the test, and became a citizen. They've accomplished something. They aren't the people with the sticker, though. The ones with the sticker are soccer moms in SUVs and rednecks in pickup trucks. They are "proud" because they just happened to be lucky enough to pop out of the womb within the United States. Of course, they don't feel that other people who do that have a right to be proud..... not if their parents weren't citizens. Those people are, of course, a drain on our superior society.
This is a dangerous and egotistical pride. It says "I'm better than people who were born elsewhere- or SHOULD have been born elsewhere". It says, "I deserve to be proud simply because I AM." It's the type of pride that leads one to think that anything their country does is right, simply because it's THEIR country doing it. It's a pride that says " When America says jump, France should say 'How high'". It's a pride that actually had people expecting the Iraqis to shower us with love and thanks for bombing them.
What other accidents of birth are these folks proud of? Are they "Proud to be white"? "Proud to be tall"? "Proud to be non-Jewish"? "Proud to be upper-middle class"? Just how much pride can these folks take in their various natal situations? How much work does it take these folks just to be Americans?
So there's my problem. It's a cheap, egotistical mindset, held by those that don't feel that pride is something that needs to be earned. It's vain and dangerous. Taking pride in something you lucked into is entirely inappropriate.
So what, you are thinking, would I suggest as being appropriate? Something a bit more humble. How about this-
"Thankful that I'm an American".
Posted at 02:56 pm by Joe_the_Troll
 |  |  | ruth July 17, 2006 07:17 PM PDT
Wonderful Joe - I couldn't agree more. Pride is the reward for a job well done - it has to be earned like respect. And usually those blathering about it have the least to be proud about. |  |
  |  |  | Mark July 17, 2006 07:31 PM PDT
I couldn't disagree more, Joe and Ruth.
I am prfoud of my heriatage, as everyone should be. I am proud of what my ancestors have accomplished and I am proud to be connected with what I believe, AFTER EXTENSIVE EXPOSURE TO OTHER COUNTRIES AND CULTURES, is one of the best damned countries on earth. And I donb't apologize for that. It's no accident. We all have the ability to travel and live elsewhere. I know nmany who have moved from the US abnd are proud citizens of other countriews now. Their right and I respect that.
I am poroud of my father and uncles' service during WWII and the jocb they did eradicating Europe of a ruthless tyrant. I am proud of my father's service in the Israeli Air Force in 1948 and I am proud to be a Jew and a supporter of Israel.
And NONE of that means I expect anyone else to shout "How High?" cuz I'm not yelling "Jump".
Jebuis, WTF is wrong with a little self-esteem, fer chrissake? |  |
  |  |  | Miss Cellania July 17, 2006 07:59 PM PDT
OK, I am HAPPY to be an American, and I feel LUCKY. But its not an accomplishment, its just luck. My children are immigrants, and I am walking a fine line between wanting them to be "not ashamed" of being Chinese or Indian and being "proud" of something that just happened. Yes, I believe "pride" should come for a reason, like an accomplishment. When I hear of people being "proud" to be white... its like "huh?" They must not have anything else to be proud of. |  |
  |  |  | Joe the Troll July 17, 2006 08:00 PM PDT
Mark- Nothing. That's why I suggest thankfulness. My dad fought in WWII....but his accomplishments are for HIM to be proud of, not me. I can only be thankful that he did it.
You have one of those stickers, eh? |  |
  |  |  | Mark July 17, 2006 08:57 PM PDT
I don't have one of thoise stickers.
If you're not proud of your pop for doing what he did, only thankful, that's fine. I respect that. But that doesn't make my pride in my father misplaced.
I'm proud of mine. Nuff said. |  |
  |  |  | Joe the Troll July 17, 2006 09:30 PM PDT
That's not quite what I said. Being proud of my Dad because he's my Dad and he's a good one is different than taking pride in things he did before I was born, that I had nothing to do with. For me to take pride in what someone else has done would seem very vain to me. |  |
  |  |  | Joe the Troll July 17, 2006 09:42 PM PDT
Besides, this isn't about taking pride in family. This is about feeling proud about being born to one nationality instead of another. |  |
  |  |  | O' Tim July 17, 2006 10:24 PM PDT
Good point Miss C. For a good look at how "Pride Runneth Amok," try living in the South as a Yankee for 18 years and still have people (seriously) giving you shit for it. |  |
  |  |  | Mark July 17, 2006 10:45 PM PDT
"This is about feeling proud about being born to one nationality instead of another."
Like I said, I see nothing wrong with this as long as you respect other nationalities and cultures and the pride they take in being of those countries and cultures.
And it's personal, obviously. You feel one way, I another. For a different kind of pride that is definitely not misplaced, go see MC's latest post and comments. |  |
  |  |  | Cheezy July 18, 2006 04:23 AM PDT
Fantastic post, Joe. You're a great American, proud or not!
<i>Another</i> great Amercian, Bill Hicks, riffed on a similar theme...
"I was over in Australia, and everyone's like: 'Are you proud to be an American?' And I was like, 'Um, I don't know, I didn't have a lot to do with it. You know, my parents f*cked there, that's about all." |  |
  |  |  | jollykay July 18, 2006 04:50 AM PDT
depleted uranium weapons
fraudulent elections here
lying liars in office
how many civilians have been killed in iraq since the start of the war?
i am not proud and not happy, color me ashamed to be an american. |  |
  |  |  | Mark July 18, 2006 05:10 AM PDT
"i am not proud and not happy, color me ashamed to be an american."
I respect your right to be ashamed to be an American, Jolly Kay.
But I will be damned if I wioll let Iraq negate 230 years of American history and global philanthropism. |  |
  |  |  | jollykay July 18, 2006 06:09 AM PDT
i do not think the negating of US history or philanthropism is iraq's fault. |  |
  |  |  | Joe the Troll July 18, 2006 06:27 AM PDT
First off- philanthropism???????
Is this a new religion?
Secondly, it's not as if America had aa perfect record going into Iraq. Nor are we the worst that's ever existed. Acknowledging that is NOT America- bashing, it is simply recognizing the truth.
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  |  |  | Mark July 18, 2006 06:46 AM PDT
Who said anything about America=bashing, Joe? I have simply presented an alternative viewpoint, something that the Left, in it's embracing of diversity, seems to think does not extend to those of us who recognize that America has actually been a philanthropic nation.
http://knockinonthegoldendoor.mu.nu/archives/186632.php
Why don't you do a post abiout the imperialistic nation of Israel subjugating the poor supporters of Hezbollah and really light this fucking candle? |  |
  |  |  | Joe the Troll July 18, 2006 07:09 AM PDT
"Who said anything about America=bashing, Joe?"
Well, that's my name under it, so I guess I did. That was a pre-emptive comment, made against the possibility that someone might try to swerve the conversation that way. My post was very specifically about PRIDE, not the value of America.
"Why don't you do a post abiout the imperialistic nation of Israel subjugating the poor supporters of Hezbollah and really light this fucking candle?"
That's fucking cheap. I never said anything like that, and there's nothing even remotely like that here. In fact, you've never seen a bad word about Israel from me at all. |  |
  |  |  | Cheezy July 18, 2006 07:38 AM PDT
You'll find that this is a tactic that 'the right' uses a lot, Joe. They like to state your arguments for you - this makes them nice'n'easy to defeat. If, on the other hand, they let you put things in your own way, they may not have quite such a pithy rejoinder to respond with. |  |
  |  |  | Mark July 18, 2006 07:47 AM PDT
You're right, Joe. It was a cheap shot uttered in the heat of the moment for which I apologize unconditionally. |  |
   |  |  | Cheezy July 18, 2006 08:30 AM PDT
Mark is a good advocate for the "Proud to be American" lobby though... As he says it:
"And NONE of that means I expect anyone else to shout "How High?" cuz I'm not yelling "Jump"."
I guess this means that HIS OWN pride in his country has not morphed into any sense of superiority which can then manifest itself in a "You should do things our way" mentality.
Can we say this about everyone else though? And obviously, I'm not talking exclusively (or even mainly) about Americans here. The Nazis, the Soviets, Islamic fundamentalists, the Ku Klux Klan, even football hooligans ... I reckon that authoritarian aggression always starts with simple national or sectarian pride.
People like Mark can be trusted not to take it to unhealthy extremes. But not everyone can. |  |
  |  |  | Paula July 18, 2006 08:38 AM PDT
Yeah, I tend to agree with the original post. I'm glad and grateful I'm an American. Pride is a different thing, something I feel for things more connected to me personally. Bumper stickers are retarded anyway. |  |
  |  |  | jollykay July 18, 2006 10:15 AM PDT
jeesh, i have 8 stickers on my jeep, my favorite is "a woman's place is on a horse"...
i am also very fond of "what would scooby do?"
(the others are all political and my car gets spit on a lot in the parking lots around town) |  |
  |  |  | Mark July 18, 2006 07:09 PM PDT
Joe: Thanks.
Cheezy: Thanks
Paula: About this:
"Pride is a different thing, something I feel for things more connected to me personally."
Joe and I covered that up above too. He and I still have the same difference of opinion on pride in our loved ones. But a thought occurs to me:
If your child excels in school is iot wrong to be proud of him or her??
Do we say: I'm proud of my boy or girl, or are we only thankful that they excelled?
See, sorry, I still disagree. It is a matter of personal choice. I see nothing wrong in pride applied to all of the above stated situations.
Yeah, Joe, I know: PHILANTHROPY!!! |  |
  |  |  | O'Tim July 18, 2006 07:12 PM PDT
Cheezy - Bill Hicks rocks ! ! All the good ones go too soon... |  |
  |  |  | Joe the Troll July 18, 2006 07:39 PM PDT
Actually, Mark, I covered the pride in your kids thing in the post. The kids do well in school as a result of good parenting... the parents teach them the value of an education, how to sit quietly and pay attention, and make them do their homework. They instill the discipline. Therefore, the child's good behavior is a result of the parents' efforts, and pride would be justified. |  |
  |  |  | Mark July 18, 2006 07:56 PM PDT
Paula - never mind - I just reread the comment you left this am at my post and I see you said what Joe just said about pride in kids, and ITA with that! Aw man, can you feel the love, man. C'mon, group hug!!!!! |  |
  |  |  | Mark July 18, 2006 07:57 PM PDT
And new posts all around as soon as that goddamned site of mine is back up again! |  |
  |  |  | Mark July 18, 2006 07:59 PM PDT
And I have one sticker. The Dead. That's it. Fuck the rest of that crap. |  |
  |  |  | Dawn (webmiztrs) July 19, 2006 10:21 AM PDT
"Thankful that I'm an American"
lmao! good freakin call, joe. maybe you can print some of those up and slap overtop the "Proud to be an American" bumper stickers when you run into them..lol |  |
   |  |  | Mark July 19, 2006 07:23 PM PDT
Yeaah, great idea until one of them shootsa yer balls off for fucking with his pick-em up truck. |  |
  |  |  | Joe the Troll July 19, 2006 07:37 PM PDT
I've always wanted to get some round stickers with a picture of a wood screw on them. I'd use them to cover the heart on stickers like "I heart my poodle". |  |
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