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| Miz UV August 30, 2007 08:20 AM PDT  Another great post! You're on a roll this week, Joe. Yeah, isn't that amusing that the FFs probably would have been called "terrorists?" Of course life was dangerous back then. There is something different today though and that's the capability of many countries to wreak total destruction upon another in a few minutes, should they so choose. It is scary to think of a nuke getting into the hands of a nutter. Besides our Prez, I mean. Ha ha. Second Amendment. I confess I haven't been its most ardent supporter. I want there to be ways to keep guns out of the hands of wackos even if that means law-abiding citizens are inconvenienced. I am appalled at some of the stuff going on in the public schools. Things have been dumbed down. Sports are glorified over academics. Much of the school day is wasted with BS. A few excel, but that's not enough. Why is my daughter only one of 20 kids taking calculus out of a senior class of 700? (I was one of 40 out of 400.) And only 2 are non-Asian. Ridiculous. But yeah, we don't seem to learn much from history, I agree. Or even from current events. The people ragging on Chavez for grabbing power and taking away rights are many of the same ones who think the Patriot Act is just fine. | ||
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| raejane August 30, 2007 08:33 AM PDT Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it. In my high school (Rural So. Indiana) basketball was life.. LIFE, I tell you! One year we got a new gym floor (the floor didn't need to be new, it was in perfect condidtion.. I know, I ran on it everyday!) over new computers. COMPUTERS! Screwed up. | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 30, 2007 08:41 AM PDT Paula- great points! 1) I agree about the nukes - that's why I think that tightening up our borders and checking incoming cargo would be more important "security" techniques than atacking countries that weren't involved in 9-11. That's not security, that's just revenge, and a racist form of it to boot. It's the religos folks wih nukes hat scare me the most. Just about everyone knows (except some of the folks that I refer to above) that the effects of amodern nuclear device are far from localized, especially if it blows up on the ground. The ones to worry about are the ones who don't care what happens on Earth because the afterlife is going to be so goshdarn peachy. 2) I have no problem with waiting periods or inconveniences. I don't even own a gun. But I do see the reasoning that the FFs had for putting that in, and it wasn't bears. I don't think the populace should be rendered unarmed. Not wih the power-hungry madmen we tend to elect, or think we elect. 3) I saw your very good post about the glorification of athletes, and didn't comment because I have a post about that brewing myself and would have just been creating a redundancy. Mine is based on Vick, though, so it will a slightly different tack. 4) Chavez- yes, I've noticed that it's evil for a communist to take away rights, that's far left tyranny. However, here in the LOTF, wanting individual rights is somehow a LEFTY idea, and when Republicans take our rights away it's for our own good. I hae no idea how people can make sense of that in their minds. | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 30, 2007 08:44 AM PDT Raejane - that is a complete misunderstanding of the school's function. Then again, here in Albuquerque they wanted to buy enough laptops to give every student one to take home for the semester. That's ridiculous. There was only one subject in school that I absolutely NEEDED a computer to learn. That was, of course, computer science. | ||
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| Jennyjinx August 30, 2007 11:07 AM PDT I just want to say that this post and the previous are awesome. I want to comment but don't have the time to do it properly. So, I'll come back this weekend and comment. Just to warn ya. :) | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 30, 2007 11:34 AM PDT We'll be on the lookout! | ||
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| pissed off patricia August 30, 2007 01:04 PM PDT I agree with the others, this is a very good post and it makes the little brain waves wake up and think a little or a lot. I wanted to thank you for letting me know the name of the movie about the cat and dogs that made me cry like a little girl. I'm glad they made it home all in one piece. Thanks again :) | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 30, 2007 01:09 PM PDT ANytime, P.O.P. I remember watching the original version of it, which was supposedly based on a true story. | ||
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| Lucyp August 30, 2007 01:34 PM PDT George Orwell wrote a book about this very subject 60 years ago and it was scarily accurate. I would guess most people here have read 1984 but the similarity in message is stunning. | ||
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| raejane August 30, 2007 02:32 PM PDT I think computers were more important that a new gym floor. Neither may have been *needed* but one was certainly more important than the other... | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 30, 2007 03:00 PM PDT Raejane - I was agreeing, but after rereading my comment I can see that it wasn't clear. I meant that the misunderstanding was the school's, not yours. The local schools here tried to take it too far the OTHER way. I went to Hampshire High when they had Apple II-E computers! remember boot discs? | ||
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| raejane August 30, 2007 03:36 PM PDT Oh. Sorry... I thought I was going to have to threaten to kick your butt... hehehehe | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 30, 2007 03:47 PM PDT I guess halfway would be somewhere in Oklahoma? :-) | ||
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| tiger lamb girl August 30, 2007 04:15 PM PDT "nothing substantially original has happened in a very long time." That about summed it up for me, Joe. I don't know what it is about human nature (arrogance? ignorance? both? more?) that makes us think 'we're the only ones who have ever experienced _______"..... I couldn't really add anything more....you and Paula have covered some good points. | ||
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| Cody Bones August 31, 2007 10:24 AM PDT Joe, I've always been afraid of a repressive government but not just from the right, the left repressive government also scares the hell out of me as well. I just don't like giving up any of my freedoms in return for a "better scoiety" . Right or left, I don't want to be told how to run my life, and I think that most people would agree with me | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 31, 2007 11:25 AM PDT  Oh, I understand, Cody. I guess I have a bigger problem with the Right's repression because they're SUPPOSED to be the party of greater freedom, less intrusion, and smaller government, and that is nothing more than hot air these days. I've voted Libertarian more than any other way (although I've grown up enough to see the holes in that philosophy), so it isn't as if I'm just a kneejerk leftie. I sound much like a leftie these days, I guess, simply because the righties are going all whackjob on us these days. One must admit, they're providing centrists like myself with far more ammunition than the Dems are. Anyway, I wanted to be fair - that's why I stood up for the 2nd Amendment as well as the 4th. I don't see Republicans trying to outlaw anyone's guns. As always, I think that the answers are in the middle, if only we could get the folks clinging desperately to both sides to get together in the middle and talk. | ||
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| Looney August 31, 2007 11:38 AM PDT Well said, dood. What are we "defending" if we give up everything we're defending to defend it? ??? Oy... | ||
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| Lucy Dee August 31, 2007 12:05 PM PDT Solid, solid post! 2nd Amendment: There needs to be some regulation. Our founding father were thinking muskets--not rifles with sights! Foreigners constantly make fun of Americans for: a) our seemingly small lack of history... (c'mon folks --William the Conqueror ferchrissakes) b) our unwillingness to remember it (how many kids can name state capitals and the presidents?) I rest my case. | ||
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| Cody Bones August 31, 2007 12:34 PM PDT Joe, to me a Police state is a Police state regardless of how they got there. One of the best examples is Nazi Germany, next to the workers paradise of the Soviet Union. Both achieved repressive governments that actually resembeled each other more than anything else. One got there by going left, the other by going right. This is high school social studies people. DO NOT DEVIATE TOO FAR FROM THE CENTER. DANGER WILL ROBINSON | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 31, 2007 01:05 PM PDT COdy- I agree. I think I pretty clearly criticized both sides of the aisle in this post. | ||
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| Looney August 31, 2007 01:56 PM PDT Lucy, our founding fathers were thinking modern, state of the art weaponry, the sort used by the military to engage in conflict. Not that I don't think there should be some regulation, just that your comment didn't make any sense. | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 31, 2007 02:28 PM PDT I also think that the PURPOSE of the weaponry, rather than the type, is the salient point, but Lucy's comment about our ignorance of our own - and everyone else's- history is a good one. | ||
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| Lucy Dee August 31, 2007 02:53 PM PDT With regards to weaponry, our founding fathers were also thinking they needed a cheap army. So it would be wise to have the "average villager/citizen" defend the country, instead of simply the registered/regulated militia. It makes the army that much bigger. It was an easy way to have a faster mobile active army. Arm all the citizens against the British. So the purpose was different... thank you JOE! | ||
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| Joe the Troll August 31, 2007 02:58 PM PDT You have a good point there, Lucy, but I also think that a group of people who had just fought against their own government and were very wary of future ones would have put the right to bear arms in the Constitution to allow that fight to happen again if it needed to. I'm sure they realised that better, more deadly weapons would continue to be invented, just as they had been for thousands of years. | ||
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| Jennyjinx September 1, 2007 10:27 AM PDT I'm a proud liberal, but I am also a supporter of the Second Amendment. I don't think that the FFs were thinking about muskets vs. AK47s. I believe they were thinking about a powerful government taking away the power of the people. America was founded by "terrorists" or "freedom fighters" and they wanted to make sure that the people they were freeing would remain free. One way to do that was to make sure that the citizenry is ARMED to prevent a totalitarian government from taking over. The people should be able to rise up and smack down a government that would destroy our Constitution and eliminate our rights. We have the power and I believe the Second Amendment is just another way to make sure we keep the power (idealistic though it sounds). | ||
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